USSSA directive: No Major teams in AAA Tournaments

[baba]

Texas USSSA has issued a directive that Major teams can no longer play up in Houston area AAA tournaments.

This directive has been issued to protect class play in the area. Many major teams had previously been playing primarily in tournaments that were a level or more above their team's age level but below their class. This practice was unfair to the teams in these tournaments; the major teams, although younger, often dominated the tournaments. It was also unfair to the teams that did win against these Major teams because the wins did not factor into their power ratings (because the games were out of class).

This directive will not only protect class play in the area for the AAA teams, but will also ensure that the Major tournaments make. The Major teams that were trying to play in their own events were often frustrated that the events did not make. The lack of participation in the Major events was due to the fact that the few Major teams in the area were playing in AAA events. This new directive will ensure that Major events will make. There are Major events in the Houston area nearly every weekend, and the State Director is working to provide tournaments on the weekends that currently do not offer tournaments.

Of course, there are two sides to every story, and it is a give-and-take proposal for both the teams involved and the tournament directors. Bay Area Baseball Association believes that the plan is sound and will benefit the majority of teams in the area, but we also understand how the Major teams can see it as a hinderance.

We would like to hear your thoughts on the subject. Please log in and respond to this topic with your thoughts.

[Mike McD.]

This new rule is probably OK with the format from last year.  Many teams were forced up to major last year that are just not in the same class as the major teams. 

In many teams cases that have been bumped up to major it makes it tougher for them to compete and gives the established major teams a venue to play against teams that are not really ready for major. 

A major team from a lower age group gets a bigger challenge playing up against a older age group.  In the current scenario USSSA has forced up some teams to Major that really are not ready.  This was done to give the major teams more competition in their class. 

In reality more of the teams that were moved up are just not playing USSSA. This is particularly the case in the Bay Area.  Many of the teams have been together as a group for 2 to 3 years, and  are not wanting to break up  teams just to compete in Major tourneys.

The only option in order to keep their teams together and to compete is to play in affiliations other than USSSA .  Basically USSSA has forced some teams up to the major division and they cant compete and no longer have the option to play an age group above them. 

I think in theory this is a good rule but it does not seem to be working out for the teams that are good AAA teams but have been forced up as the weaker major teams.

The major and AAA teams in the Bay Area are very similar in talent level and feel like we should provide a venue for these teams.  Either that or Texas USSSA really needs to take a hard look @ the teams they are moving up to the Major division.  Reality of what is happening is teams are breaking up because they can't compete @ that level or the teams are playing baseball outside of the USSSA arena so their teams can enjoy some success.

I think if you talk to any of the major teams from the Bay Area you will find similar responses.

USSSA needs to modify this rule to keep teams playing USSSA. 

Hopefully Texas USSSA will address this quickly.

[Alvin Express 13AAA]

Problem is that at the current rate there will no longer be a need for the Major division at all. Major tournaments have difficulty making because there are many fewer teams. Why? Partly talent, partly they break up, partly they move up in age for more tournament opportunities, & partly they register down in class. If the newly reclassed teams played within their class and accepted that after being reclassed they weren't going to win nearly every time out, there would be many more tournament opportunities for everyone in that class. Additionally, the existing upper echelon Major teams would soon find out the better coached reclassed teams new to the division are soon playing at a similar level and would have all the competition they need. Some directors do not even consider Major events because they end up with no tournament at all. As I look through events other than USSSA that teams play to avoid the major tournaments so they can enjoy some success, I see many of the same teams classified as Major teams in USSSA in those events playing one another with the occasional AAA or AA team sprinkled in. For the most part they could've had the same tournament with USSSA.

Some of the Major and upper echelon AAA talent in an age group is similar, just as some AAA & upper echelon AA talent is similar. Those that finish near the top of power ratings after a given season rightfully should move up and should want to do so. Some teams mistakenly only judge success by the number of trophies displayed in their rooms. In many teams cases getting bumped up to AAA or Major makes it tougher for them to win; not necessarily compete. Competing & winning are 2 very different things and obviously a mixture of both is most desirable for everyone. I would personally get more satisfaction from coaching my team all the way from a bad AA team to a Major team with 500 winning percentage than win 100 AA or AAA trophies. A few years down the road will that High School coach be more impressed with all the AA or AAA trophies in the players room or the major player standing before him?

[Coach T]

Com-pete:to strive to outdo another for acknowledgment, a prize, supremacy, profit, etc.; engage in a contest.

I think this really says it all.
The sad part is that to many so called coaches want to protect there players from the element of true competition and not offer a proper venue for the players.  The fact is that if parents/coaches measure the success of a team from there win/loss record or the amount of trophies the team wins they have truly missed the boat.  The real purpose for Tournament Baseball is to provide training,situation and good competition to allow there players to challenge themselves and become better.  No kid gets better by playing down in there skill level.
When all these great little players move up into important baseball they will hear the same thing from there coaches:
I dont care what you did at the age of 10 or 11. 
It's about what you do for this team not one you no longer play on.
You can purchase all the lessons and top equipment you desire.  All it really matters is how the player plays the game and how can he help his current team compete and become a better team.

If you really read the above mentioned comments sent out it would lead you to believe that if a high school or college team struggles in its season it should be allowed to move down to provide a better situation for its team.  This is a sad thought if you really look deep at it.
All for now
Coach T
I

[baba]

I see it all too often in our tournaments: teams that are struggling to stay AA, squeaking by just within the rules with five AAA players. We've also had parents on our team who weren't happy and didn't think the team was successful unless we were beating the other team 20-0. For us, this kind of game is a waste of time for both teams and useless, if not detrimental, to our players.

I agree that teams should play up to their level. At this stage it should be about preparing the players for high school--and beyond if that's what they want. Run ruling teams every weekend doesn't prepare anyone for anything.

[Mike McD.]

I appreciate your comments and have to agree with them in some respects.  Both of the coaches that made the comments are very good coaches.  I respect their opinions.  I am glad these two coaches responded because they have the same interest that we do as coaches in allowing kids to play to their highest potential, challenge the kids, and help promote the life lessons that the game of baseball can teach and most importantly have fun.

I have to say that the main interest is that there is not many Major tourneys and I felt like there is not a problem with a major team playing up an age class.  It challenges the Major team by allowing them to play up a class against bigger and stronger kids and challenges the AAA teams of the class above because they are playing good competition.  It also allow a team to have more flexibility in their schedule due to fact that there are very few major tourneys especially in the Bay Area.
 
Each and every team needs to play @ a level that challenges them.  My interest is also to help promote more Major tourneys so that Major teams have more tourneys to play in instead of having to play non USSSA events.  If we allow them to play up that will also allow them to play more USSSA which is the primary provider of tourneys in the area.

I see today that BABA is trying to do their part by trying to promote major tourneys.

With the current structure I see no problem with teams playing up an age class.  I felt like it has worked in the past and I see no reason it will not work now.  I think a major  team playing a class up in the AAA  is challenging themselves.

If a team is winning all their tournaments( atleast 3) they should ask to be moved up and/or be able to play up and age class. 

I will have to say that I have seen USSSA moving teams up and down to try to help teams compete with teams of the same level.  It seems to be improving or I am just noticing it.

Is there something I am missing about a youger Major team playing up against AAA teams of an older age class?  Espeically when the number of Major tourneys is limited. Do the teams of the older age class not want to play Major teams from a lower class.   It has always been very challenging to play Major teams from a younger class and I never recall it not being competitive. 

Although our 8u team from Friendswood is classified as a major team and there is no way they should be classified with those teams that play baseball year round.  They play Friendswood Litltle League in the Spring and sprinkle in a few select tourneys in the summer and fall.  The system is no full proof but eventually it gets it right.  Since my original post I have noticed USSSA moving allot of teams up and down so it is improving. 

I would challenge anyone who would imply that the Bay Area teams that were moved up to Majors this year are trophy chasers and do not challenge their players to develop @ the highest level.  The tourneys, leagues, and schedules these team play speak for themselves.  It is an accomplishment for these teams to start out @ AA and move to the AAA and Majors level. Many teams fall into this category and many coaches, trainers , and local tourney directors have touched these kids lives and helped in their development as ball players and young people.  If that applies to anyone reading this, know that you have had a positive impact that will be life long memories for all these kids.   

Hopefully all  your ( our ) teams continue to move up in their developement and the system will be better for those teams in the very near future purely by the increased numbers.  If USSSA does not address this I assume the tendency will continue to be a decrease in major teams.  The numbers will stay up if the tourneys are offered and/or teams have options to play up an age group.  Otherwise we will go back to the days of having AA teams and everyone else.

I hope that this view is realized because that is what is being communicated @ that level by most if not all teams.
 
Coaches -thanks for your views.  Karen thanks for your thoughts and unfortunately your right those are true statements for some teams.   Thanks for your efforts to try to expand a tourney schedule in the Bay Area that helps
the Bay Area teams.



 

 

[rshetter]

Terrible rule:
Basis for that statement, if USSSA actually had criterea they used in order to move teams up to next level it would be fine. But opinion based moves are redicules and waste of time and money. Do I need to win tourneys, trophy chesaers not hardly. If that were case we could play in small tourneys and win them. For instance last yr we were moved to major level, for what? I have no idea 12-5 record in usssa ball and those games were before the team split. We played in one state tourney, seeded second, lost the next game so should have gone home. What did usssa do? They took loss away gave us second because the tourney rained out. So they reverted back to where we seeded and got second in state. For that what did they do? Yes they bumped us to major. Finally they came to their senses and understood where we were after donating 1000 dollars to be run ruled by real major teams. Probelm with major as I see it is this, they should bump top 20 AAA teams, not points but power rating teams. Along with 15 they already have you would have a mojor division of 35 teams and you could compete with most. Now what they are doing is pushing people away from USSSA which is a very sad state.

[Alvin Express 13AAA]

Managers see the teams. They form the opinions. Ron has no way of knowing the competitiveness level of 5000 teams other than by the power rating formula. There is a criteria for moving up and it is by power rating. Most age groups/classes had at least 10-15 teams moved up from last year and it was based on power ratings. I would assume any team moved up would have been at least in the top 10 of power ratings. Others were moved up based on a particular player(s) classification being added to their roster. He doesn't move the #1 power rated team and skip to #25 based on opinion. If you're not sure why the move, those would be a couple of areas to check.

I would also agree that there should be more teams, however it wouldn't matter if it were 50 teams pushed up if teams continue to drop just enough players to stay down in class, add 1 or 2 older players to play up, or move down after only 1 or 2 attempts at their new classification; whether that be AAA or Major. If 10 are pushed up, 3 disband, 2 move up in age, 3 move back down in class and 1 or 2 previous major teams also disband there's a net gain of teams of around 0.

There are also many teams in all age groups and classes that do not like to donate their money getting run ruled. It's probably even more sensitive an issue when getting run ruled by the same teams from last year after those teams were re-classed to AAA or Major only to come back down in class because they don't like to make the same donation they expect others to make. They already did that all of last year.

If a team makes a genuine effort to play in their new class & just isn't good enough, they should be moved back down. No one should have to suffer through 15-0 regularly and I would absolutely agree with moving them back down. It's the others who maybe win a few, but lose more than they did the previous year without really playing much in their new class that should probably concentrate on working harder, rather than looking for flaws within USSSA.

[Mike McD.]

 
Good response.   

We( including myself) have kind of got off the topic.  That is good -some good points came out.  It would be nice to hear the view or teams that have been major for a year or two to get their take on the major classification.

I still do not understand why a Major team from one class cannot play up a age level in a AAA tourney especially if there are no Major tourneys available.  Yet a AAA team from a particular class can play up a age group in a AA tourney.  I looked at tourneys across the area and many AAA teams are playing up an age group in AA tourneys.  I see nothing wrong with a team playing up a age group as it has always been done. 

Looks like BABA is going to try to host some major tourneys in the future.  We have several teams in the younger age groups as well from the area that are playing in Majors.


Thanks for the forum and responses.




 

[baba]

You're right, Mike. BABA is hosting an 11 Major tournament this May (9-11). Check out the Tournament Schedule page for info. Starting in August, all of our tournaments and our fall league will be Open.

I agree; it's a good forum!

[AngelsParent]

Well listen to this one. They are crying about Majors tournaments making so our 11u AAA team signed up and paid to play a Majors tournament in Humble this weekend.  For weeks the tournament showed only three teams so we signed up and paid.  Our kids are excited about playing Majors this weekend.  Again we paid and signed up almost a month ago!  So this morning our Manager got an email from Sara Woorley of Humble that we are being REMOVED from the tournament because there are Majors teams that want to play in the tournament. This is being done on a Tuesday the week of the tournament to let a Majors team in and basically throw our kids out in the cold.  In the email she states that this is a directive from the State Director who we all know is Ron Mathis.  We are sick and tired of being pushed around and treated as irrelevent.  This is the exact reason that Triple Crown is growing and growing in popularity and will one day replace USSSA because of people and things like this!  Now we have no place to play but Mr. Mathis is hosting a tournament on the 24th of May that he isnt letting anyone else sign-up for but he has 3 AA teams in that.  So is he going to now put them out of his tournament for AAA teams? Or is it just like most people say that its all about Majors with him because of his ties to Baseball USA and trying to make their tournaments always fill-up because he uses their fields for his high school team?